05 February 2007

Lions led by donkeys

Right, before we start, it's important to set the scene: everyone begin by humming that circus tune... come on now,

rrrrrrrRRRRRRR-RAT-tat titty tatty rat ta TA-da,
Tum tum tiddy tummy tum ta-RA-ra
Rip da banaaaa-na
Rip da banaaaa-na
Tummy-tummy-tummy-tummy-tummy-tummy TA-da...

Now keep that tune going as you read on:

Glorious leader, Home Office Minister Tony McNutty-as-a-Fruitcake has told Jeremy Vine, on a Panorama interview to be shown tonight that members of the public shouldn't intervene in an scenario posed by Vine:
Jeremy: You see a young man looking aggressive, shouting at an old woman, what do you do? You retreat and ring the police?
Tony McNulty: I think you should in the first instance. It may well be the simply shouting at them, blowing your horn or whatever else deters them and they go away.
Jeremy: He's now hitting her and the police haven't come, what do you do then?
Tony McNulty: The same the same, you must always ...
Jeremy: Still wait?
Tony McNulty: Get back to the police, try some distractive activities whatever else.
Jeremy: What jump up and down?
Tony McNulty: But I would say you know sometimes that that may well work
[Bitseach: er, what's that now? Say that one again?]
Tony McNulty: Get back to the police, try some distractive activities whatever else.
Jeremy: What jump up and down?
Tony McNulty: But I would say you know sometimes that that may well work
THIS is one of the leaders of the police services / forces / constabularies across Britain.
THIS is the man from whom we are given the f***ing hoops through which we must jump constantly.
THIS is the chap that is SO SPINELESS that he thinks that this a good thing to tell the good people of Britain to do if they see an old lady being beaten up by someone in the street.
THIS is the man who is so lacking in moral courage that he looks up to puddles as sources of strength. I have thrown limp lettuces out of my 'fridge that have had more character than this excuse for a man, and for which I've had more respect.
This is one of many reasons why the police should never be run by civilians elected or appointed into position by policians and bureaucrats.
At the risk of, for the first time in my life, agreeing with the Daily (Hate-)Mail, this man makes me sick to my stomach.


Blogger kris said...

So THIS is where mayor of Hackney, Jules "Crack" Pipe gets his "dial 999" crime policy from!

05 February, 2007 18:11  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If Labour had an ounce of decency he would be sacked on the spot. No wonder people hold politicians in contempt.

05 February, 2007 18:38  
Anonymous NorthernPC said...

Is this the same numpty who declared David Copperfields blog was more fiction than Dickens when confronted on its topics?

06 February, 2007 09:15  
Blogger ExtraSpecialCopper said...

He is an absolute 100% muppet who lives in his own little world with no understanding of what goes on out in the real world.


06 February, 2007 10:20  
Anonymous Joe Public said...

A sad indictment of the society we live in.

06 February, 2007 14:40  
Anonymous essy said...

I can't get that bloody tune out of my head now.

06 February, 2007 15:01  
Blogger PC South West said...

Clueless and way out of his depth. To top it off he is insulting and incompetent.

07 February, 2007 12:43  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Clueless and way out of his depth. To top it off he is insulting and incompetent."

I'm afraid that just makes him more qualified to be a minister!

08 February, 2007 07:06  
Blogger Bitseach said...

Essy - I am impressed that you got the tune from my version of it! (Now I have it MY head again)

I see other police bloggers have called him "McNumpty". Wish I'd thought of that! I am still in shock about this. Perhaps he'd like to come out for a couple of shifts with a police team or unit and then wind his bloody neck in!

10 February, 2007 18:12  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My experience (on the London Underground) is that if you physically intervene in such an incident, then you are very likely going to be arrested, once the Police turn up.

In that case, the Police seemed to be looking for the easiest way out...
Oh, and the injured old "lady" had disappeared, without as much as a thank you.

I don't think I'll be doing that again.

So, in fact, the Minister's advice seems quite good.
Don't get involved, unless your own personal safety (or that of your immediate family) is at stake.

11 February, 2007 16:24  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi there,
I'm a student at Goldsmiths college and am writing up a news feature about the Vortex occupation as part of my journalism course.
Do you think it is possible for me to use a quote of yours I came across in the Kris's Stoke Newington blog?

(People live in Stokey because of its unique character - the Vortex was part of that. People like Midda take all that is attractive about a place and rip it out so that all that is left are stupid flats that none of us can afford anyway and that'll all get bought up by people who already have flats to let to those of us who don't and can't afford that first step onto the property ladder.)
If you don't want your name to be featured (though the article will not be published) can I refer to you as a police officer in the area?
Thank you for your time!

(you can contact me at: co301es (@) gold.ac.uk)

13 February, 2007 11:47  
Blogger blueknight said...

More people would have a go and help out if they felt they had some protection in law while acting genuinely.
People subconsciously risk assess the situation. If they feel they have a physical advantage over the attacker, they might well 'have a go' and help the old lady.
The problem afterwards is that the incident is analysed unemotionally in the cold light of day by people who have never been in such a situation and would not be able to cope with it, even in role play.
At the time of the incident adrenaline takes over and words like proportionate and reasonable do not exist. this is especially true of the greater proportion of the public who may not have been in such a situation since the school playground.

16 February, 2007 00:58  
Anonymous Anonymous from 1624 on 2007-02-11 said...


so just where does your analysis leave me...

..Yes, I know: arrested, cautioned (as in that sort of statement), fingerprinted, DNA'd, detained (I refused bail on principle), to Court, made to feel a right criminal in fact...

I really do thank the magistrates for finding no case to answer, and therefore not guilty.

Yes, I got costs.
No, I have not yet got my satisfaction.

My fingerprints and DNA are still held by the Metropolitan Police Force, even though I am innocent of any offence.

And do you know what?
I will never, ever again, intervene (except for myself and my own) and particularly I will now never intervene so as to assist any police officer who may find himself being attacked on the streets.

The bastards tried to fix me up, so now I won't stir even a finger.

(Unless he makes a specific request for assistance, of course, and then to avoid any offence on my part, I'll assist him, by dialling 999...)

Anonymous from 1624 on 2007-02-11

16 February, 2007 14:50  
Blogger BelfastPeeler said...

Don't you love farce?
My fault, I fear.
I thought that you'd want what I want
Sorry, my dear.
But where are the clowns?
There ought to be clowns.
Quick, send in the clowns.

As I said to a member of the public whom I was giving a caution to for disorderly behaviour "I may be wearing a funny hat but I'm not a fool". Maybe "I may work for idiots, that doesn't mean I am one" would be more appropriate...

18 February, 2007 12:44  
Blogger blueknight said...

To Anon from 16.24.
I am obviously not familiar with your case. I do not know what was alleged and who was alleging it.
No one would deny that there have been cases where the 'defender' has overstepped the mark and become the 'attacker'.
What I am saying is that the vast majority of the public do not understand the law and that is where the confusion lies.
Whilst there are many people such as yourself who feel they have been victimised by the system, there must be as many if not more victims who could have been saved if the member of public walking past had the confidence to intervene.
Referring to your case in general terms, it is the CPS and not the Police who decide the charges. The Police have to show the CPS the whole file of evidence and it is CPS who make recommendations about who should get charged with what.
The DNA and fingerprint retention was the result of a law passed by the current government.
I believe the history behind the change in the law was the case of a rapist who was picked up on the match of a DNA sample he had provided for another case which did not go to Court. The sample was waiting to be destroyed and it was ruled that it should not have been used in the comparison.

18 February, 2007 21:47  
Anonymous Anonymous from 1624 on 2007-02-11 said...


While you say CPS decide the charges, it is the Police who decide whether or not to arrest.

In the case I mention there was a group of three yobs who were harassing a little old "lady"; one of the yobs had removed her spectacles and was about to stand on them, another had seized her handbag and was about to rummage through it.

I stopped them by pushing one away (from the spectacles) and by taking the handbag and returning it to the lady. I then picked up the spectacles and gave them back to her. That was the limit of my physical intervention, although my presence prevented further violence to the "lady".

Yobs cowered.
Train stopped at next station.
Little old "lady" got off and went. (Thank you ma'am.)
Yobs called for help.
Train waited.
Police came (Inspector, Sergeant two/three constables and a dog).
Yobs said that I had hurt one of them (red mark on hand where bag strap had caught when I retrieved it).

Muggins arrested for assault causing actual bodily harm (or some such twaddle).

I did not agree to a caution.
Thank GOD for Magistrates.

Never, intervene, except for your own...

...and never, ever, trust the Police: they prefer to believe drunken scum, rather than honest citizens, because it is an easy detection.

(Yes that case is down as detected, even though I got a "no-case to answer".)


Anonymous from 1624 on 2007-02-11

21 February, 2007 11:58  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


25 February, 2007 23:13  
Anonymous Anonymous from 1624 on 2007-02-11 said...

Anonymous from 1624 on 2007-02-11 said (in response to Anonymous from 2313 on 2007-02-25)


is written in many police station cells. Do you know what that acronym means?

And why is it so ubiquitous?

Best wishes!

26 February, 2007 14:43  
Blogger Bitseach said...

Well Anon from 1624,
I am sorry that you had this bad experience. All that I can really say is that, given the facts that you have given us, I would have tried my utty not to have arrested you and I am quite surprised that this went to charge and thence to court. Arrest is not the be-all and end-all - it is often just the first step in investigation, and we often arrest people whom we secretly hope to release asap, in circumstances such as yours, when it appears that a good samaritan has been burned by malicious little scrotes. But look at it from the initial officers' point of view:
I was saving a little old lady from attack (right, where is the old lady now? do you have any independent witnesses? is there any CCTV?).
These lads were attacking her and I intervened (he's admitted that he undertook some physical act and there IS a red mark on the lad)
Why do you believe them over me? (I do not know your record and whether or not you are a truthful chap or a cad. I am not sure I believe these lads either but they are all coming up with the same story and you have no-one to corroborate yours. I do not know these lads either and do not know whether they are truthful fellows or cads. Are there any INDEPENDENT witnesses to any of this?)

(I have sufficient suspicion that an offence has been committed and really must now arrest in order to investigate this promptly and effectively, however much I am unsure of the actual truth of the situation and who is telling the truth, if anyone. I shall therefore arrest for now and try to work it all out back at the station or when the arrestee has been bailed, which gives me time to check for witnesses, view tapes, interview, etc)

Whatever the actual dialogue was, of course I don't know. From your telling of the story you were a hero who was unfairly arrested (and frankly, I am still amazed that the CPS charged for the first time in their miserable careers). But from the uncertain view of the officers who first turned up and have no idea of the truth, the situation is a lot fuzzier. I'd have been tempted to arrest you on suspicion of assault and them on suspicion of attempted robbery / robbery / theft-snatch or whatever and work it all out later.

As for your "ACAB" acronym... if it stands for what I imagine it stands for, no we're not. I don't blame you for thinking that - your experience was bad and you were unfortunate. I don't expect you'll ever change your opinion either and that's a shame. Again I don't blame you for your point of view, but I do disagree.

We're not.

We try to do a good job in difficult and unclear circumstances. Everyone thinks they know better than we, and sometimes they're right. Often they're not. We make mistakes like everyone else. We also suffer a lot more than most jobs and expected to put up with violence, abuse, crap conditions and a system of justice that often seems to us, unjust. Most of us try our best and want the best for people. Most of us just want to lock up the bad guys and help the little old lady.

I'm sorry it didn't work out that way for you. But it doesn't make me a "B".

28 February, 2007 00:20  
Anonymous Wozza said...

Any man that wouldn't step in if he saw an old lady being attacked by anybody is as spineless as McNulty. I have intervened in one instance (when a shopkeeper was being attacked) and I would do so again. Yes I know I run the risk of being arrested for assault but I am confident that any jury would acquit me and yes I know I run the risk of being hurt because however much I think that I can 'look after myslef' I know that there is always a chance that I wouldn't.
But I wouldn't be able to cope with my own shame if I just stood by and watched it happen.
McNulty ought to be disgusted with himself spouting that utter cowardly drivel on television

02 March, 2007 04:31  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


well done. excellent post. you sound like someone i would have a pint with.

anonymous 1624 or whoever you are. i suspect your mouth got you arrested. even in this calm dialogue you resort to generalising insults. like a child who cant get his own way.

02 March, 2007 13:57  
Anonymous Anonymous from 1624 on 2007-02-11 said...

To Bitseach:
Thank you for your well-considered posting, having taken on board what you write, and understanding more than I did, I feel not so angry.

To grannys.myth.peeler:
Calm down.

Anonymous from 1624 on 2007-02-11

03 March, 2007 09:49  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

oh my, i don't think mr. mcnumpty wants to come round my neighborhood. people here have actually been known to assist the police, occasionally even when lawfully armed. case in point, an officer sorting out a drunken underage yob with three of his mates looking like taking a hand, your anonymous correspondent opened his coat to show the butt of a legally carried service .45 and quietly said "stay out of it" and stood by while the officer finished up with the drunk. no drama, just a word to the wise to keep the peace. the laws are somewhat different here and i suspect mr. mcnumpty would suffer cardiac arrest if he were to pay us a visit.

18 August, 2007 07:08  
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My views are my own and would probably not endear me to my dear employers.